91 When Your Boss Is a Woman Without Kids — And It Feels Harder as a Mom

Welcome to the Great Leader Great Mom podcast, where we trade in mom guilt and burnout for courage, calm, and a whole lot more joy. I'm your host, Liz Jolly, engineer, turn life coach, mom of three, and founder of the School of Courage. Here we talk about leading at work and at home, without losing your sanity, your sense of humor, or yourself. If you're ready to drop the guilt and grow your courage, you're in the right place. Today is episode 91, and we are talking about something a lot of women complain about at home and then feel a little guilty even thinking it We're going to talk about why does it feel so hard to be a mom on a team with a boss that's a woman and has no kids I think many of us think this will be easier. She'll totally get it. She's a woman. And then you realize your world, your reality, and her reality, they're just totally different. She might be all in on the job. She travels all the time. She stays up super late. Maybe she doesn't have any polls on her time outside of work. And it starts to feel like her version of commitment is the standard. And you are somehow always a little bit less than. So before we go anywhere else, I want to set the tone for this episode real clearly This is not an episode about villainizing women who don't have kids. Not at all. This is not mom versus non-moms. This is an episode about differences, different lives, different demands, different definitions of success. and how to lead yourself when you work for somebody whose path looks different than yours, than the one you're trying to live, and how sometimes it really is frustrating for us. Picture this for me. You're in a team meeting, it's 4 30 in the afternoon. You're already mentally mapped out the whole after school routine. pick up the kids, let's do the homework, let's make dinner, let's take all the kids to the different sports, and maybe it's just survival. Your boss, we'll call her Amanda, says, okay, let's push on this. How about we block 5. 30 to 7 p. m. tomorrow evening so we can really focus on this. Nobody says anything. People just nod in agreement. Your stomach drops. You're thinking, that is literally dinner, homework, and bedtime. And that's the whole window. That's the only part of the day I get my kids full attention. Amanda, by the way, is not evil. She is very smart and competent and has built an impressive career. She doesn't have kids her evenings are relatively open and she truly experiences five thirty to seven as a great time to have focus work. There's no meetings in her world, right? And you find yourself doing mental gymnastics If I say something, I'm gonna look less competent and less committed. Everybody else seems fine with this. She pulled all nighters at this stage in her career, so maybe this is just what it takes. And you start to quietly tell yourself a story. Her version of success is the right one. And mine is the compromised one. Mine's not enough. This is where the tension lives. It's not that she's wrong for how she lives. It's that there's no acknowledgement that you're climbing a completely different mountain. I hear many women say, honestly, this feels more loaded than working for a man And when you work for a man, there's often an assumption of difference built in. Like your expectation is just different from the get-go. Whereas with a woman you think they're gonna align with your values and have the exact same Definition of success and how they want to spend their time. You don't necessarily expect a man to fully understand what it's like to get called out of a meeting because your kid has a fever and you have to go pick them up at school But when you work for another woman, part of you might think she gets it. She should know what it's like. She sees me, right? And when that doesn't happen, when her expectations feel even more rigid, it can feel like a double sting. There's an external pressure, the scheduling, the deadlines, the can you just stay a little bit longer and help out? And then there's the internal shame, the thought, if she could do it, why can't I Is it just me? Am I not good enough at this? Not committed enough? This is where I want to bring in so much compassion for you. Women who don't have kids are not the enemy. Some desperately wanted kids and it just never happened. Some chose to not have kids and poured themselves into other parts of their life. Totally their choice. We have to honor and love that Some feel relief about all of it. Some feel grief. Some feel both. We truly don't know her story What we do know is that the system around both of you is often celebrating the overwork, the FaceTime, the time in the chair, the availability at any hour of the day or weekend. as a measure of your commitment. And if your boss has been rewarded for that, that's the model she's likely operating from. Of course that makes sense. So instead of she's the villain or I'm the problem or I'm the burden, let's step back and name the actual conflict. You have two different lives. You're two different humans. You have two different definitions of success. That's the mismatch. Let me tell you a composite story from women that I've coached and talked to. We'll call her Rachel. Rachel's a senior manager. She has two kids in elementary school. She is great at her job. Her team loves her. She consistently delivers. Her boss Lauren is the VP and Lauren is brilliant, charismatic, and visibly all in in her career. She travels constantly. She's always answering emails every hour of the evening. and is the last one to leave a lot of times. Lauren doesn't have kids. Rachel told me, I feel like Lauren is the gold standard. She sets the bar and I will always be a little bit below it 'Cause I have two kids. And when a late night issue comes up, Lauren jumps in, no hesitation, no questions asked. Rachel jumps in sometimes just because she's not available Because she's doing bedtime or homework or shuttling the kids back and forth to sports. Sometimes the kids are melting down Sometimes it's just exhaustion and Laura never says, You're not committed, but she will say things like, I remember at your stage I basically lived here or this is the season where you have to prove yourself. You have to show that you're loyal to the company. This is totally normal corporate language. Let's be real. This is the world we live in. But through Rachel's brain, it lands more like Well good leaders are available like that, and I'm just not that. I'm not able to do it. Therefore, I must not be good. I must not have what it takes. So what does Rachel do? She starts over compensating. She says yes when she wants to say no She takes calls from her car or from the ballet studio while her daughter's dancing. She responds to emails late at night while resenting every single one. Underneath it all is this quiet sentence that she doesn't even realize she's carrying. If I were really serious, I'd give what she has. I'd make this all work. I should be able to do everything That story is so painful for us. It's not Lauren's existence. It's not even Lauren's choices or her definition of success. The belief that Lauren's version of success is the only valid one is the one that causes all the suffering Let's zoom out for a minute and let's name what's true. Your boss may have a different home situation, a different demand on her time outside of work. a different level of energy, different values around her work and life. And you have little humans who need you. You have a brain that's managing multiple roles. You're juggling hundreds of balls every single day You have a definition of what a good life looks like that includes more than work. Nothing is wrong with you and nothing is wrong with her. It's okay for your lives to look different. It's okay for your definition of success to include bedtime stories and soccer games or being in the office on the weekends. It's okay The problem is when only one version of success is named and rewarded and held up as the standard in our own brain. So the work here, and this is big, is to stop trying to squeeze your entire life into someone else's template You're allowed to say, I want a respected, rich career, but I also want to be present in my life outside of work. I want to be there for my kids. My success. has to include both. There's no one right answer. And there's definitely not a wrong answer. You get to define what success looks like. Let me share another composite story. We'll call it the client We'll call this client Denise and her boss Erica. Same dynamic. Eric is a senior leader, no kids, extremely driven. Denise is a director with three kids and a husband who has a big job also Denise came to me because she was on the edge of burnout and she said, I'm trying to match Erica's level of visibility and commitment and I'm dying on the inside. But I'm also so scared that if I say anything she'll think I'm not leadership material and I'll get off track. So we worked on what I call the value clarity conversation. Not a defensive monologue, not a complaining session. Not a big dramatic speech, just a grounded grown-up conversation. Here's the essence of what Denise said to Erica, and you can adopt this for you I want you to know that I care deeply about this role and this team and I love it. I'm committed to doing excellent work and leading at a high level I also have three young kids, and a big part of my definition of success at this time in my life is being present for them in the evenings. So I'm constantly working to balance those two values. Strong results here are important and being the mom, I want to be at home. When we schedule occurring meetings after 530, it puts those values in direct conflict for me. I'm absolutely open to being flexible when there's a true emergency or a time crunch and most of the time I can start earlier in the day or I can adjust in other ways. Would you be open to us looking at our recurring meetings at a different time and see which one genuinely needs to be after 53? Or what could be during the core working hours? Not defensive, not apologizing, no preamble. It's not dumping her life story and complaining and having a pity party. It's just naming her values, affirming her commitment, and making a specific request. Here's what happened. Did Erica suddenly become the poster child of work-life balance? No. But Erica did say, I didn't realize how many evenings we were piling things into. Let's move the weekly meetings to mid-afternoon and leave the evenings only for truly time-sensitive emergency situations. That conversation didn't fix everything forever, but it moved Denise out of this silent resentment and into owning her definition of success out loud Think of the self-trust she built in all this. This is leadership. This is courage. This is having your own back. I want to give you a simple framework for how you can use all of this right now The first step is noticing the story you're telling yourself about your boss. It may sound like she thinks I'm weak because I have kids or she doesn't respect me or she expects me to live the way she does. Ask yourself, do I know this for sure or am I filling in the gaps? Even if some of it feels true, it's worth checking because If your whole reality is built on an unspoken assumption, a story you made up in your brain, the only place that lives is in your head. Step two, name your own definition of success clearly into yourself, and don't tell yourself there's a wrong and right version of this. Write this down. Success for me is doing the work I'm proud of. Having a sustainable schedule and being present with my family in the evenings and on weekends If you don't know what success means to you, the definition on default will be whatever the strongest personality is in the room. Number three, separate performance from lifestyle. Ask yourself what outcomes matter most in this role. Is it revenue? Is it quality of work? Is it client satisfaction? Team health? Anchor, all of it there. Your lifestyle doesn't have to match your boss's. If your results do, that's really important to distinguish. Step four, have one small honest conversation. Not a massive confrontation, not a here's my manifesto, start small. Like, hey, can we look at how we're scheduling late meetings? Here's what I'm balancing, and here's my proposal. Or I want to check in because sometimes I'm worried that my boundaries with evenings look like lack of commitment. And that's not not That is not what's going on for me. Here's how I'm thinking about it, and I'd love to hear your perspective too. You're not asking for her blessing to have your own life or your own definition of success You're not asking for her to m even approve of your values. You're aligning expectations and claiming your values. The last piece is tender but important. Sometimes the hardest part of this dynamic is not the schedule. It's the longing for approval. You might really admire your boss. You might see parts of yourself in her, your drive, your intelligence, your ambition. So when she seems to be okay with sacrificing all the things you're not willing to sacrifice, it can feel like rejection Almost like if she disapproves of my choices, does that mean I'm doing life wrong? If you and I want you to hear this. You don't need your boss to want your life in order for your life to be valid and amazing. You are allowed to value your kids' childhood and your career. You can do both. You just have to get really clear on what your success definition looks like. You're allowed to design your version of having it all, even if it looks totally different than someone else around you, like your boss. The goal here is not to convince her that your way is better. or for her to approve of your way. The goal is to walk in your own way with enough self-respect that her opinion doesn't carry this all-encompassing weight on your worth. That's the inner work. So if you're working for a woman who doesn't have kids and you felt this tug, that quiet comparison, that little stab of maybe I'm not good enough, I hope this episode gives you the language for what's going on beneath the surface. Nothing has gone wrong because your lifestyle looks different. You're not weaker, you're not less committed, you're not less capable. You're navigating a different set of realities and you're allowed to define success in a way that includes both meaningful work and a meaningful life outside of it. With your children, if this conversation resonates with you, I'd love for you to take a few minutes after this episode and just jot down. What does success actually look like for me? What am I trying to squeeze myself into somebody else's picture of success? What is one small conversation you can go have this week from a place of courage? If this resonates with you, you should check out our School of Courage membership We don't just talk about these dynamics in theory. We look at how they're playing out in our actual life and leadership. Every week we meet for a live teaching and coaching call Where we take one of these real world situations and work through it together. We just closed out January talking about how we create more joy and happiness in our lives and how we stop outsourcing that to others Well we're starting in February is about creating future you. This is about intentionally deciding what do you want to do next? Not what feels safe or expected or realistic based on the past, but what you actually want your future to look like from a place of empowerment and courage and love and kindness. We're gonna loosen the grip on these old roles and narratives that we've used to define success. We're gonna practice sitting with possibility. without immediately shutting it down and squelching it. So if you're interested, go to lizjolly. com forward slash membership and check out the different options. We would love to see you there. And if you're interested And touching bass with me to find out more about this, go to lizjolly. com and connect with me. With that, I wish you all an amazing week. Take care, everybody.